To celebrate 40 years of Metallica, the band joins Zane Lowe for a career-spanning conversation exploring the group’s early days, seminal moments, lineup changes, and the secrets to longevity. They also discuss why their 2004 documentary ’Some Kind of Monster’ was so ahead of its time, gratitude for former bassist Jason Newsted, the status of new music on the way, and more. The band will perform two 40th anniversary shows at The Chase Center in their hometown of San Francisco, CA this December 17th and 19th.
Metallica Tell Apple Music About Making The Move Early On From Los Angeles to The Bay Area…
James Hetfield… for us, it could have been very different. Could have been even darker than it already is, as far as the darkness… I don’t know, there’s so many, “What ifs?”
Lars Ulrich: When we were down here by ourselves in LA, we were so contrary to everything that was going on, on the strip and the clubs, the music scene down here that. We were just fueled by the contrariness. And then when we went to San Francisco, that was the first time that we belonged to something. There was people up there that were like us, there were people up there that were listening to the same music, that felt like we did. And there was a whole kind of, sort of like, a collection of misfits up in San Francisco. Especially in the East Bay, that were sort of like all the same ilk as us. And it gave us… It was the first time I think we felt that the sense of belonging to any place, which we certainly didn’t here. When Cliff called up and said… After me harassing him for six months, Cliff Burton, bass player said, “I’ll join on one condition, which is you come to San Francisco.” We were out of here before I hung the phone up.
James Hetfield Tells Apple Music About Metallica Not Having a Plan B…
James Hetfield: We were asked a little earlier, “What was plan B?” It’s like, “Well, plan B was making plan A work.” As simple as that. Because there was no other plan, it was, “We’re going to do this. And if it doesn’t work out, then whatever happens, happens.” But honestly, that’s what happened throughout our careers. We don’t know what’s happening next. We’d let the challenges come to us. And then write about them, use them at as what they’re supposed to be, which is experiencing life. Yeah, there was a goal. But our goals changed as… “Oh, our goal is to get a tour bus.” And, “Okay, now we got that. Now, we’re going to go on tour with a bigger band.” And then this, and then that. And the slow, constant climb up.
Metallica Tell Apple Music About Reaching The Milestone of 40 Years Together As a Band…
Lars Ulrich: Feeling the gratitude, the appreciation, and how all of this has kind of been able to manifest itself for almost four decades. Who could think that 40 years ago, that this… Hit The Lights, the energy of that tune and then what that led to, could lead to where this sits today. Without getting into any of the… But if you break it down to that yeah in itself, the fact that we would still be here. Even at that time, when Pete Townsend and Roger Daltrey were talking about, “I hope I die before I get old…” That was the spirit of rock and roll. Rock and roll wasn’t supposed to age, rock and roll wasn’t supposed to live on like this. So the fact that 40 years later, we’re here. The fact that again, that The Rolling Stones are going out on tour. Obviously, Charlie rest in peace. And so on, but who knew?
James Hetfield: There was a drive. Really, there was. I was trying to find people that had the same drive to do this, that I did. And a lot of my friends were, “Yeah, sure. I’ll be in your band.” And, “Well, what songs do you know?” And it was the path of finding all those people that didn’t work, to find another person as driven as Lars. Who had come over from Europe, and had of this knowledge of traveling with bands, the business side of things, a huge plethora of different kinds of music for me to just be a sponge. And just going over to his house after the ad and just soaking all that up. Just finding someone else that had the same drive, was such a gift.
Kirk Hammett Tells Apple Music How Metallica’s Self-Imposed High Expectations Paid Off…
Kirk Hammett: I get the sense… And I know this for myself. But I’ve always got the sense that we all expect so much more from ourselves. Almost like an unrealistic expectation, but look where it’s led. And I always say to myself, “I expect so much.” And a lot of times, I fall flat by my own expectations. But at the same time, we all get results from that. And I think that’s something that we all share, is we want just that much more from ourselves, from the music, and from each other. And I think that’s a real defining characteristic of this band, is just that we’re never ones to just like kick back, sit down on the couch, and just watch our life go by, and congratulate ourselves. We’re not about that. We’re about what’s right around that corner.
Kirk Hammett Tells Apple Music About Discovering The Sound He Wanted To Pursue and What Drew Him To Metallica…
I have to say, playing guitar and discovering a type of music that was just like a little different from all the music that my peers were listening to, was a major thing. Recognizing that I was attracted to a certain type of music that was really energetic, aggressive, but also so emotional at the same time. And a plethora of other emotions. And discovering this music and then kind of like realizing that, “Yeah, this is where I want to take my guitar playing.” That was a major, major thing. And then discovering, when I asked around, like I couldn’t really find anyone else who was into this type of music. Other than just literally, two or three other friends. And it was a point of like, “I love this music and I want to create this type of music.”
When I got the call from Mark Whitaker who was working with these guys.It made perfect sense to me because I was coming from the same musical place as these guys. But separately. I was into this music with my friends up in the bay area and just happened to be the same stuff that these guys were into. And so, I understood where they were coming from musically because I was coming from the same source and listening to all the same stuff. So it was very easy for me to just go, yeah, I get this instantly. This is what I want to do. And the ironic thing is when I left Exodus, then I started in high school and I started playing with these guys. I felt more at home with these guys than I did the band that I started in high school.
Robert Trujillo Tells Apple Music About Auditioning For Metallica…
They were throwing songs at me that I hadn’t officially worked out because I got the call to come in and play, I believe it was on a Thursday. I think I was in Tahiti. And all of a sudden I realized that I was going to be at a friend of mine’s birthday party in the bay area. Mike Borden, actually. And that was a Saturday night. So I was flying into LA from Tahiti to go to a birthday party in San Francisco. Lars says, oh, that’s great. Why don’t you come in on Monday? And come hang out with us. And so everything was happening so quickly. I didn’t really a lot of time to take all the material in. I knew Battery fairly well. I had the feel for that one, the Gallop and everything. And I had a bit of that in my former band Suicidal Tendencies. So I felt I could identify with that. And if there’s any song that would have some sort of impact… At least it’s that one. You know what I mean? Everyone’s going to play Sandman or whatever. And then I remember, I don’t if they remember this, but they were like, can you play “Sad But True?” And I didn’t really know that one, but I had to figure it out on the spot. Now, the good thing about “Sad But True” is that’s a feel song that you got to have this groove, feel. And I felt connected to that. So I was really happy that they offered that as a song to jam on. So I felt I was tested on a few different levels. The speed, the feel, the swagger of the song. Actually a song like “Battery” has a certain thing. It’s special and not everybody can play that.
So I immediately felt connected to what they were doing in more of a live formula and a live format. And at the same time, I was trying to be really humble and just be like, look, I’m just happy to be here. You know what I mean? I drove up here to jam with these guys and I’m going to go back down to LA and I’ll do whatever I’m doing down there. I was still working with Ozzy at the time, but it was just an honor to come up here and play these songs with these guys. And that was it for me. It was like, as long as I can do that, I’m happy, you know what I mean?
James Hetfield Tells Apple Music What Rob Brings To The Band…
With Rob. I mean, when we were getting to that point of needing to find a bass player, and Rob was on the list, I’m just thinking no way he’s going to join us. He’s too amazing. I mean, he’s too spectacular. I mean, the things that he’s got going on. I mean, he’s so connected and he’s so wanted and needed. He might show up as a kind gesture and play and then yeah thanks guys,He didn’t need it. He’ll be fine without us. But when he did play, I mean, okay. Yeah, I get it. I mean, there were a few other people I had in mind and then when Rob showed up, it was like, okay, this is…He fills us so much.
James Hetfield Tells Apple Music About Struggling With Identity and Frontman Pressures…
There was such an expectation already on myself to not let the team down and be the best as possible. But then you add, 60,000 people out there. You need to be what they need you to be, because this is what you’ve evolved to be. And it is, a little bit of Oz, like the man behind the curtain, pay no attention. But this guy behind the curtain is just dying and struggling and freaking out and not knowing who he is. The word unraveling is a great word, like unlearning all of what happened before and being… That was a part of me, for sure. But it dominated. It dominated all of me. The parts that weren’t happy about me, there’s a huge co-dependence and insecurity. A lot of that, that, gosh, I’m no good without these guys. Who am I? Off tours, who am I? Like any first responder or a football player, or even as soldier, you take your uniform off and you’re a civilian again. And who am I? I don’t know who I am. There was a lot of fear in that.
Metallica Tell Apple Music About Jason Newstead’s Departure From The Band…
James Hetfield: My theory now is I could love anybody really at the end of the day. You get to know them, you get to know where they’ve come from, you understand where their parents came from, all of that. How are you, you? I can accept that. I can really accept that. There was more to be revealed. I mean, really. He was at a point where he was at and we were at a point where we were at. It happened because it happened. If it was like that right now, say, Robert comes and says, “Hey, I’m done here.” We would fight. We would fight, or I would fight for him. I didn’t know about the fight back then.
Lars Ulrich: I mean, if you think about it, Jason is the only member of Metallica who has ever left willingly. And that in itself is a statistic. And the resentment from James and I was just so… You can’t do that. You can only leave if we want you to leave. And then we weren’t equipped at the time to do a deep dive into why he was leaving. So of course, now you can see 20 years later, it makes complete sense, but okay, we write the songs. We make the decisions. We do all of it. You have no creative outlet in this band. You have no creative voice. Then when you go and do something that gives you satisfaction in a way for you to express yourself to the rest of the world, then we get pissed at you. Then that resentment then goes to you leaving the band. I mean, that’s kind of psychiatry 101 here. But we weren’t equipped to see that side of it 20 years later. So now it makes complete sense. Jason gave 14 years, every day, every performance. He was there always. I mean, we always used to joke. It’s like, “He’s so fired up. Come on, dude. Slow down.” He was the first guy and the last guy out. He was signing autographs when we were driving by waving on the way out of the buildings. I mean, he really was. I, now have finally equipped to appreciate every moment that he gave. And we have, I think so much respect for each other now, so much appreciation. 10 years ago when we did the 30th anniversaries, when he came up and played four nights with us at the Fillmore shows, played two nights with us, seeing Robin and him together up there. That felt like it was the beginning of the falling of where we are now, but he’s been very tackled of the reissue and the rerelease and has done interviews and been very, very helpful. He did the unboxing of the box for the cameras and the whole thing. And I mean, he’s been so gracious.
James Hetfield Tells Apple Music Why He’s Grateful For The Black Album…
I feel connection. I feel the fact that people are grateful for that album that had happened. I didn’t see it then. I see it a little bit now, but it’s still just the thing we had to do.I love the fact that I absolutely know in my heart of hearts, that that album happened for reason. It couldn’t happen again. It was there. It was then. All of the things that were happening at the time, it all happened because of those things too. It was us who played it. It could have been somebody else, but we’re grateful that it’s us. And we were there to accept the challenge. We had no clue. We had no clue. I mean, I’m outside having a smoke and the guy out there, giving sodas and stuff to people, he’s like, “I’m not supposed to do this, but I’m like a little girl right now. Oh my God. That album helped me changed my life.” I wouldn’t have heard that before. I understand it now and know that the four of us sitting here still, it’s a blessing. It’s absolute blessing. And him saying that is a blessing too.I’m grateful that we’re here after 30 years celebrating it.
James Hetfield Tells Apple Music About Elton Complimenting “Nothing Else Matters”…
Well, earlier, we were playing with Miley and Elton John was on a Zoom call and he says, “Nothing Else Matters is one of the most beautiful melodies and, I guess, ballad love songs written.” And I was like, “…No way, there’s no way this man is saying that! Who wrote Goodbye Yellow Brick Road and the… Oh my God, Candle in the Wind, come on! Are you sure?” A huge compliment and I will take it for what it is, from the recycler to the recycling of The Black Album.
Metallica Tell Apple Music How 2004’s ’Some Kind of Monster’ Was Ahead of Its Time…
Lars Ulrich: I think you have to remember there was no social media at the time. Nobody was televising to the world what they were having for breakfast every day. So there hadn’t really been an insight into the way that the cameras ended up being a part of that whole journey for two years. First of all, it wasn’t planned. It wasn’t like, oh, let’s document what’s going to happen in the next two years in the ensuing show. I mean, that wasn’t the plan. It was, they’re going to come out, we’re making a new record. Joe Berlinger and Bruce are going to come out and document what we’re doing.Well, maybe make an infomercial. It’ll be on after the guy with the Ginsu knives and whatever else at 2:00 in the morning. Metallica has a new album, blah, blah, blah. And then all of a sudden that whole break down started happening in front of the cameras. And then they ended up sticking around to sort of document, and get the arc of it. But nobody had seen, nobody had that kind of access to a rock and roll band. This is 22 years ago. Nobody had ever seen-
Zane Lowe: That moment when you agree… Sorry, but I’m so with you on this. That moment when you agree and you go, let’s stick with this. I’m just going to say, man, I want to say to you for a long time, that was the moment when I think the conversation changed for the arts, for music and for the desire to actually be transparent and not hide behind the curtain every night and not put on the superhero costume. Actually, it needed the toughest guy to make the biggest statement.
James Hetfield: Ironically, yeah. Showing your vulnerabilities, the toughest thing you can do. Absolutely.
Lars Ulrich: Well, I think you, people forget it’s… obviously 20 years later, it’s like, there’s a couple of soundbites in there, just saying, ha ha. The therapist is handing the singer lyrics and all that type of stuff. But it really was an incredible, I mean, the project in itself was very, I think ahead of its time. When the movie came out, the biggest uproar was in the world of rock and roll because nobody had ever seen that I’d ever seen anything like that.
Lars Ulrich: Now, in documentary film, in the film world, the whole film world, embraces and go, “This is great. It’s among the best documentaries. It’s got all documentaries that succeed have a natural art to them.” Obviously, it wasn’t really a movie about a rock and roll band, it was a movie about relationships. But it was set against the world of rock and roll. But everybody in music were like, that’s way too much access. That’s way too much transparency.
James Hetfield: If you’re going to be a mentor or role model for younger bands, why wouldn’t you put that out? This is what really happens.
Metallica Tells Apple Music About Curating The Lineup For Their ‘Blacklist’ Covers Project…
Kirk Hammett:It’s amazing. It’s so great, at least for me. Just to see all the various different interpretations, the individuality, the musical personality being put into all these songs. And these are songs that all of us are used to hearing a certain way, and then all of a sudden it’s like an explosion of all these different types of versions, and I’m amazed.
Lars Ulrich: It’s pretty crazy… There’s been cover versions of Metallica songs for just about… Since The Black Album came out. We were talking to the other day about… I remember around ’92, ’93, there was a German EDM band called Die Krupps that started doing some EDM versions of Sandman and a few of the other songs. It was like, “Holy [inaudible 00:55:07], really?” Nobody… We weren’t prepared for that part of it, and subsequently bluegrass and lullaby and Korean death metal, the compilation albums, and 12 Spanish bands do their take on Reload or whatever. There’s been endless slew of this stuff, and some of it interesting, some of it maybe slightly less interesting, but always we’re very appreciative. But we’ve never curated any of it, it’s always been stuff done by the artists themselves. This was the first time that we kind of said, “Maybe we could invite a few artist peers, who we know have… where Metallica’s had a part in their growth, a part in who they are.” And that started on a very small scale, and then it just went nuclear and 53 artists later… You have this smorgasbord of this incredible…And that is really the key thing. Diversity. All genres, all countries, all parts of the world, all styles, tastes, approaches, gender. It’s just everything that… To me, it’s so 2021.
Lars Ulrich Tells Apple Music About The Status of New Metallica Music…
Lars Ulrich: I mean, listen, we haven’t been out of the house for a year and a half, and so it’s very rejuvenating. And the last couple, two, three days, as we’ve played… Played with Miley yesterday, played with Miley today, you’re kind of getting your groove back, getting your spunk back, getting your confidence back, getting the band back together… but listen, I don’t know…. I know everybody’s had a different version of obviously the last 18 months. It’s impacted all of us in different ways, but sitting still, as you know, is not my forte. And so, just getting out again and getting amongst it is so f**king reenergizing. And the last couple of days, like James said earlier, celebrating the legacy of this record and so on is… It’s kind of cool, but still it’s a little like, “Okay, well what’s about the future?” What about the future? I just get too… Obviously, ultimately, we like the seesaw element of it, the balance, but still, it’s like, “Let’s get on with it. Let’s go play some shows, let’s get on with our fall. Let’s hope that we can get through the next few months without anybody going down, keep our fingers crossed. Let’s be cautious, let’s be respectful of the situation out there. And of course there’s new music coming, there’s always new music coming. It keeps us alive, you know that… Listen, I wish I could… I mean, of course there’s new music, but there’s nothing cohesive. There’s not a story, there’s not anything to really back it up yet.
Lars Ulrich Tells Apple Music About Metallica Being Set Up For Longevity…
And I think that the way we’ve been able to set it up for ourselves, we put into place a setup or system that is the most promising for longevity. We may be able to ride this out, physical ailments aside, hopefully for another 20, 30 years, because of the way we’ve set it up. Because in that comes the space to finally respect the individual, respect the individual needs, be respectful of schedules and so on and so forth, and find a way to make it work. There’s a lot of resources that go into that, but ultimately it makes the band healthy and a healthy band has the biggest chance of longevity.
Video and quotes: credit Zane Lowe on Apple Music 1. Watch the interview in full at apple.co/-metallica.